David Costa interview
The application of The Art of War to business has frequently been a topic of intense debate. One might question whether the book's warfare principles are truly effective when his or her main objective is to win over the customer, not the enemy. However, to the businessperson who understands and sees Sun Tzu's lessons unfold daily in the marketplace, there is little doubt to its value.
David Costa, one of the leading scholars of business, believes not only can you apply The Art of War but do so without engaging in economic battles even in arguably the most competitive and established industry in the world -- banking. Professor Costa demonstrates how once you understand Sun Tzu's principles, you begin to see how you can indeed win without fighting, achieving the highest level of skill possible. Such wins help you to attract clients, gain market share, yet without having to destroy your competition. You leave All-Under-Heaven intact.
Professor David Costa is a founder and Dean of Faculty of Robert Kennedy College, located in Zurich, Switzerland. He is also a Fellow of the Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania, and has a degree in Jewish Studies and an LL.M. degree from the School of Law at the University of Northumbria, Newcastle. Educated at Stanford University, MIT, Queen Margaret University College, and Bocconi University in Milan, he advises on banking management, relationship marketing, and entrepreneurship.
His latest book is called "The Art of Banking: Dominate the Banking Landscape and Win the War without Fighting a Battle," a must-read for business students and seasoned executives alike, especially those in or are interested in the banking industry.
For more information, visit the Robert Kennedy College. Below is Sonshi.com's interview with Professor David Costa. Enjoy!
Sonshi.com: When was your first exposure to Sun Tzu’s Art of War? What was it about the book that attracted you to it?
Costa: My first exposure to the Art of War dates back to several years ago when I was still a student.
It was a very interesting read and my first idea about these concepts was "how can we use some of these old concepts in our modern world?". I was always thinking in terms of business conflicts more than a traditional war. More recently I read Robert Cantrell's translation which I found very accurate and insightful.
Sonshi.com: How can a 2,500 year old book like Sun Tzu’s Art of War still be relevant in the modern business world?
Costa: Management is a continuously evolving field. Many things are changing, like how technology impacts the way we work. That said, many things remain the same and at times busy executives lose focus of the basic principles. There is an array of ways to analyze and sometimes predict whether a business will be successful or not. Yet, Sun Tzu's ways to analyze your market and competitors are still extremely valuable and relevant.
My view has also been reinforced by several scholars. For instance, in "Profit from the Core" (Zook C and Allen J, HBS Press, 2001) the authors recognise both the weakness and merit of Sun Tzu's strategies. Although military analogies to strategy are currently out of favor, we remain struck by the contemporary relevance of this observation from Sun-Tzu's Art of War: "The more opportunities that I seize, the more opportunities that multiply before me".
In our Executive course "The Art of Banking" the great majority of participants (usually senior and top level managers) confirmed some of my views and found Sun Tzu's idea very valuable and, using my modern interpretation, applicable.
Sonshi.com: Tell us about your book, "The Art of Banking." Why did you decide to write it?
Costa: There are several books on Business and Sun Tzu. Yet there are none about banks. In my experience banking is perhaps one of the most competitive environments. If you take a field like IT, technology plays an important role in differentiating market players. In banking the offerings are pretty standardized and customers can hardly tell the difference between one bank and another. For this very reason I decided to write a book to be used in our course and also to be made available to those that do not have a chance to attend. It was an interesting challenge and it gave me a lot of ideas for the course.
Sonshi.com: What caught our attention was its subtitle: “Dominate the banking landscape and win the war without fighting a battle.” Explain to our readers further why is it possible to win in the marketplace without fighting when your competition is out to destroy you, i.e., drive you out of business?
Costa: At times a bank focuses too much on the competition and too little on the customer. Much of my recommendation in the book is to create your own "Blue Ocean" or uncontested market space and dominate it. Competition is important to the extent that we can analyze the weakness in a particular banking service and create a better product or solution. The best way to achieve this is to look at the customer: what makes a customer unhappy about his current banking experience? Is there something we can do better?
For instance, a lot of banks are outsourcing basic customer services to call centers. Some banks are not and this makes them by definition different. Nowadays is much about the type of customer experience you can provide. If your bank is providing superior customer experience or an outstanding one, it just might win the war without fighting a battle.
Sonshi.com: You are a Founder, Dean, and Professor of Robert Kennedy College in Switzerland. What do you think is the most important lesson for any student of business competing in today’s environment?
Costa: In one word: leadership. The commander was important to every battle. Nowadays the leader is crucial in every "business war".
Sonshi.com: Per Business Week magazine, the MBA student body at Robert Kennedy College consists of 40 percent women and 80 percent international. We commend you for achieving such diversity! How are the class discussions different from your previous class experiences at, for example, Wharton or Sloan?
Costa: The first difference is our delivery method. We work on a blended learning format (mostly online studies with some mandatory residencies). From the outset we have served a different and diverse student population that, for their current work commitment, would not be able to complete an MBA or any of our Post Graduate programmes like the Post Graduate Certificate in Advanced Management for Bankers.
One of the most important advantages is that, at the end of their studies, the student will receive the same degree of a full time student. That degree is issued by the Federal University of Wales (the second largest British University) and is recognised worldwide.
Our class discussions, both online and during a residential, are quite similar to my previous experience. We are using the case method and everything in our programmes can be applied immediately.
The same principle was used to write my book: I have tried to come up with some practical ideas and several examples to make our students' experience as fulfilling as possible.
[End of interview]
David Costa, one of the leading scholars of business, believes not only can you apply The Art of War but do so without engaging in economic battles even in arguably the most competitive and established industry in the world -- banking. Professor Costa demonstrates how once you understand Sun Tzu's principles, you begin to see how you can indeed win without fighting, achieving the highest level of skill possible. Such wins help you to attract clients, gain market share, yet without having to destroy your competition. You leave All-Under-Heaven intact.
Professor David Costa is a founder and Dean of Faculty of Robert Kennedy College, located in Zurich, Switzerland. He is also a Fellow of the Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania, and has a degree in Jewish Studies and an LL.M. degree from the School of Law at the University of Northumbria, Newcastle. Educated at Stanford University, MIT, Queen Margaret University College, and Bocconi University in Milan, he advises on banking management, relationship marketing, and entrepreneurship.
His latest book is called "The Art of Banking: Dominate the Banking Landscape and Win the War without Fighting a Battle," a must-read for business students and seasoned executives alike, especially those in or are interested in the banking industry.
For more information, visit the Robert Kennedy College. Below is Sonshi.com's interview with Professor David Costa. Enjoy!
Sonshi.com: When was your first exposure to Sun Tzu’s Art of War? What was it about the book that attracted you to it?
Costa: My first exposure to the Art of War dates back to several years ago when I was still a student.
It was a very interesting read and my first idea about these concepts was "how can we use some of these old concepts in our modern world?". I was always thinking in terms of business conflicts more than a traditional war. More recently I read Robert Cantrell's translation which I found very accurate and insightful.
Sonshi.com: How can a 2,500 year old book like Sun Tzu’s Art of War still be relevant in the modern business world?
Costa: Management is a continuously evolving field. Many things are changing, like how technology impacts the way we work. That said, many things remain the same and at times busy executives lose focus of the basic principles. There is an array of ways to analyze and sometimes predict whether a business will be successful or not. Yet, Sun Tzu's ways to analyze your market and competitors are still extremely valuable and relevant.
My view has also been reinforced by several scholars. For instance, in "Profit from the Core" (Zook C and Allen J, HBS Press, 2001) the authors recognise both the weakness and merit of Sun Tzu's strategies. Although military analogies to strategy are currently out of favor, we remain struck by the contemporary relevance of this observation from Sun-Tzu's Art of War: "The more opportunities that I seize, the more opportunities that multiply before me".
In our Executive course "The Art of Banking" the great majority of participants (usually senior and top level managers) confirmed some of my views and found Sun Tzu's idea very valuable and, using my modern interpretation, applicable.
Sonshi.com: Tell us about your book, "The Art of Banking." Why did you decide to write it?
Costa: There are several books on Business and Sun Tzu. Yet there are none about banks. In my experience banking is perhaps one of the most competitive environments. If you take a field like IT, technology plays an important role in differentiating market players. In banking the offerings are pretty standardized and customers can hardly tell the difference between one bank and another. For this very reason I decided to write a book to be used in our course and also to be made available to those that do not have a chance to attend. It was an interesting challenge and it gave me a lot of ideas for the course.
Sonshi.com: What caught our attention was its subtitle: “Dominate the banking landscape and win the war without fighting a battle.” Explain to our readers further why is it possible to win in the marketplace without fighting when your competition is out to destroy you, i.e., drive you out of business?
Costa: At times a bank focuses too much on the competition and too little on the customer. Much of my recommendation in the book is to create your own "Blue Ocean" or uncontested market space and dominate it. Competition is important to the extent that we can analyze the weakness in a particular banking service and create a better product or solution. The best way to achieve this is to look at the customer: what makes a customer unhappy about his current banking experience? Is there something we can do better?
For instance, a lot of banks are outsourcing basic customer services to call centers. Some banks are not and this makes them by definition different. Nowadays is much about the type of customer experience you can provide. If your bank is providing superior customer experience or an outstanding one, it just might win the war without fighting a battle.
Sonshi.com: You are a Founder, Dean, and Professor of Robert Kennedy College in Switzerland. What do you think is the most important lesson for any student of business competing in today’s environment?
Costa: In one word: leadership. The commander was important to every battle. Nowadays the leader is crucial in every "business war".
Sonshi.com: Per Business Week magazine, the MBA student body at Robert Kennedy College consists of 40 percent women and 80 percent international. We commend you for achieving such diversity! How are the class discussions different from your previous class experiences at, for example, Wharton or Sloan?
Costa: The first difference is our delivery method. We work on a blended learning format (mostly online studies with some mandatory residencies). From the outset we have served a different and diverse student population that, for their current work commitment, would not be able to complete an MBA or any of our Post Graduate programmes like the Post Graduate Certificate in Advanced Management for Bankers.
One of the most important advantages is that, at the end of their studies, the student will receive the same degree of a full time student. That degree is issued by the Federal University of Wales (the second largest British University) and is recognised worldwide.
Our class discussions, both online and during a residential, are quite similar to my previous experience. We are using the case method and everything in our programmes can be applied immediately.
The same principle was used to write my book: I have tried to come up with some practical ideas and several examples to make our students' experience as fulfilling as possible.
[End of interview]