Foo Check Teck interview
Considered by many to be Asia's foremost expert on Sun Tzu, Dr. Foo Check Teck goes beyond translating The Art of War: through extensive and in-depth research -- a reputation he has already established globally -- he makes the text "a living document" and seamlessly transferable to the modern world.
Dr. Foo's credentials are impressive: Ph.D. (Strategy, St. Andrews), MBA in Finance (City University of London, postgraduate award winner), LLB (Hons, London), FCMA, FCIM, ACIS, Barrister-at-law, Advocate and Solicitor. His bookOrganizing Strategy: Sun Tzu Business Warcraft was chosen by Blackwell in Oxford as both Book-of-the-Month and Spring's Choice. Reminiscences of an Ancient Strategist: Mind of Sun Tzu was widely praised and was recommended by the prestigious London World Review. BBC also featured him in its Global Finance program. His research on corporate identity strategy won him an excellence award from the UK Literati Club.
Besides lecturing as Associate Professor at Nanyang Technological University in the College of Engineering, he is internationally affiliated - Honorary Research Professor of International Business at Copenhagen Business College, Denmark, Visiting Professor of Technology Strategy with the New York Institute of Technology, US; a registered UN consultant, Coordinator for Asia for the International Center for Corporate Identity Studies based in Glasgow, UK. He was formerly an Honorary Senior Research Fellow in Strategic Management at Scotland’s oldest university, the University of St. Andrews.
Needless to say, it is with great pleasure we at Sonshi.com bring you this exclusive interview with Dr. Foo Check Teck:
Sonshi.com: In addition to your lectures and workshops, a few of your notable works on Sun Tzu are Reminiscences of an Ancient Strategist: Mind of Sun Tzu, and Organising Strategy: Sun Tzu Business Warcraft. One of the interesting aspects of your research is the analysis of Sun Tzu's mind and how he thinks. Please tell our readers about what you discovered.
Foo: Oh a very good question.
My journey of discovery is long, arduous yet enjoyable. Putting my conclusions first. I believe your readers grasp the mind of Sun Tzu by creating their own Art of War. That is what Sun Tzu did! That is the best way to "see" his thinking. Sharpen and deepen your mind for mastering strategy.
Create your Art of War.
Believe me, it can be a very satisfying experience. I began to grasp deeply the mind of Sun Tzu through de-constructing his masterpiece. Most challenging is by trying to immerse myself into the Unconscious. Immersing into the Unconscious I discovered many suggestive imagery to be surrealist. Let your Unconscious work, if possible through deep, meditative reflection.
Try to experience the "A-ha!"
Sun Tzu has a Yin-Yang quality in his mind - both sharp and deep - one he uses to master strategy. In my opinion The Art of War is not written for publication and sale - as are books on strategy. Many of the "Art of War" works are but another translation - more of the same. In ancient China, The Art of War is priceless - more precious than translucent, green jades - a gift fit for the King.
The Art of War is for Sun Tzu a living document - one where he records "principles" that worked for him. Sun Tzu enhances his work with "tested" insights derived through his "experiences". "Experiences" interpreted broadly to include his readings, observations, encounters, interactions and more.
The bundle of bamboos was intended by Sun Tzu more for his personal use. These are ideas, concepts and techniques on strategy that Sun Tzu found to be effective. Clearly he drew from 2,500 years - counting from his time - of Chinese history. It is a work he was confident to present to a King. Most importantly Art of Work reflects his own learning and mastery in the art of strategy.
Imagine for yourself the working of his mind.
You can imagine Sun Tzu quickly reviewing his Art of War after having sharpened his mind on the critical issues, he then let his mind ponder deeply over strategy: how am I to counsel the King?
Why?
Reading The Art of War puts him and yourself too into a strategic frame of mind. Do not take my words for it. Test for yourself. Say you had to negotiate a major contract but you had a lousy weekend. Say, you are unsettled by a quarrel in the family.
What do you do?
Say the meeting could not be put off as the other party is already in town. Suppose you decided you had to go through the negotiation. My advice: sharpen your strategic mind.
How?
Run through The Art of War concepts. Identify what is relevant for the meeting. Use "Dr CT FOO's Cards on The Art of War" or even better still your own Art of War cards.
Ideally, you should follow Sun Tzu, make your own thinking tools - your own art of war - on ideas, concepts, techniques, principles particularly relevant to your business, industry, situation. I impart this technique through my "Sharpening Class" through the Singapore Institute of Management. Now my cards are to get you started. Yes, on an exciting journey to create your own! The entire six days intensive program The Complete Art of War Series is geared towards helping you be thinking like Sun Tzu and creating your own Art of War.
Sonshi.com: After successful careers in business (accounting, finance, law), since 1988 you have been a professor at Nanyang Technological University. Having been able to step back and view business from more of an outsider's perspective, do you think companies are following Sun Tzu's principles?
Foo: Yes.
In the first place, management is derived from the military. Examples: organization chart, its hierarchical levels, functional differentiation, allocation of duties etc. Indeed "Operations Research" emerges out of the Second World War. So it is not surprising for a military work to be relevant for managing large companies. The real difficulty is in discovering just how antiquated The Art of War is - 2,500 years - very old ideas, really. We are into fads, forever chasing the latest.
I found many more CEOs and entrepreneurs, especially those who had to compete at the edge are unconsciously applying Sun Tzu's ping-fa (transliterated as Law of Soldiering). That is a major contribution of my doctoral work done at the very ancient, 1411 University of St Andrews: a university where Prince Williams is studying.
My PhD thesis was empirically grounded, using a large-scale database, applying rigorous statistical analysis and across an entire ASEAN region. I surveyed top publicly listed corporations including perceptions of CEO, strategist and top manager. That is found inOrganizing Strategy: Sun Tzu Business Warcraft (selected by Blackwell in Oxford for Book-of-the-Month and then Spring's Choice). It is the very first study in the world documenting the relevance - metaphorically speaking - of The Art of War to strategic management of top, large, publicly listed corporations.
There is however much more to my research.
Organizing Strategy published in 1994 also unveils the underlying complexity and deepinter-connectivity of strategy process - evidencing that strategy processes are indeed consistent with chaos theory. In other words, those CEOs at cutting-edge areunconsciously applying The Art of War but not consciously in the "how-to-do-it" manner as advocated in many popular books on strategy or as taught in workshops.
Sonshi.com: You tell your students to tear up their awards and diplomas. You hate being rushed and having to meet set quotas for publication. And yet, you have many accolades and degrees in various disciplines and are a prolific author of numerous books and journals. We have heard some of your philosophies on this but perhaps you can share with our readers your thoughts on how you operate every day.
Foo: This is really a very personal question.
One secret that I shall share with your readers is that I still ask myself, "Who am I?" I am still searching for the answer. Yes, rediscovering myself - each and every day. I keep an "empty" mind. I do not restrict myself by thinking "I am a Sun Tzu" expert. If I do, very quickly I lose the flexibility, agility of an "empty" mind. Why? You can then predict, anticipate my every move. Yet the great beauty of Sun Tzu's work is that he emphasizes the highest ideal of a strategist: be utterly unpredictable! The goal is to remain innovative, do not become predictable.
How?
By tapping the deep innovativeness in your own unconscious mind. Now, if your mind stays clouded, how can your Unconscious ever communicate with you? How can you ever see things from a fresh, unconditioned perspective? How can you ever be truly flexible?
Of course, I use the term "mind" - singular - but in reality, the human mind is limitless. As you may already know I chant the Dharani Mantra (Ta Pei Chou, in Chinese) everyday. Now the mantra is that of Avalokitesvara in her thousand eyes and thousand hands form. The truth is our minds are limitless - our strong "ego" limits us. Thinking thus, "I am so and so." For example, I never regard myself as an Art of War expert - sonshi.com may see me as one.
I just keep an "empty mind".
Even now I read The Art of War with an "empty mind" - approaching the concepts embedded in the Chinese pictographs afresh each time. Every time there is a major event, eg. US-Iraq war I ask myself simply: How is Sun Tzu given his Art of War is likely to respond?
For me this self-renewal is key to how I operate.
It is best if I give an analogy.
I try never to play a piano piece the same way twice. I keep improvising my play by re-interpreting, re-exploring the themes, motifs, colors in a composition. Why? For me, I try to grasp the creative spirit of the composer - not just playing the piece. I try to ask myself, what if the composer had been alive, what else may he have had created? In other words, a written piece of work is but a means for me to try and grasp the creative spirit, the mind of the composer.
Sonshi.com: When did you first hear about Sun Tzu and his Art of War, and what was it about the book you found insightful?
Foo: As my late father is a Chinese language teacher and later School Principal, I had heard Sun Tzu's ping-fa being mentioned now and again. My teenage education is at the British-styled Raffles Institution (RI) - founded by Sir Stamford Raffles - I am into English literature: Julius Caesar, Animal Farm, To Kill a Mocking Bird.
My hot favorites remained historical biographies - I collect biographical works on great leaders/strategists: Mao Tsu Tung, Peter the Great, Genghis Khan, Cleopatra. Now I am reading McLynn's Napoleon and looking up for materials on China's First Emperor, Qin Shi Huang.
I first learn from my brother Dr FOO Check Tong PhD (Engineering Science) about the direct relevance of Sun Tzu's Art of War to my own research. He had seen my manuscript Organizing Strategy. His comments were that what I had found via rigorous statistical analyzes Sun Tzu already knew 2,500 years ago!
That was how deeply insightful Sun Tzu was on strategy - you need to read Organizing Strategy to truly appreciate how great a strategic thinker Sun Tzu was. His insights validated by me 2,500 years after it was written. Now I was using data from a very different though highly competitive arena - business. Yet it made a lot of sense since many of the early founders of top ASEAN corporations are ethnically Chinese. And among Chinese, Sun Tzu's Art of War is widely cited. Clearly these early Chinese businessmen lacked MBA training. Logically they must be using some mental framework to organize their businesses. My research showed Sun Tzu to be a major influence.
Later I collaborated with my brother to produce "Thinking around Stratagems". We attempted to present the deep wisdom of Chinese strategy by creative use of diagrams. Now, these 36 stratagems were immensely valuable: the person who presented it to the founding Tang Emperor was made a Prime Minister! In our book all the 36 stratagems were explained. The stratagems are metaphorically, like engineering formulae, eg. Einstein's e=mc2. Each stratagem is still relevant for solving real-world problems.
Sonshi.com: What still fascinates you about Sun Tzu?
Foo: It is the depth and thus the reliability of his strategic thinking.
In my opinion what he had recorded on bamboo strips as The Art of War he had probably tested himself through fighting his own battles. In other words, it is as rigorous and akin to our testing of hypotheses of strategy behavior through rigorous methodology. Read again The Art of War, you realize the immediacy of his words even via translation.
Now the period of Spring and Autumn in Chinese is a warring period and he lived through that. So Sun Tzu had the advantage of "laboratory of warring states" to test-develop, refine his concepts on Art of War. That is why the work is so "powerful" - and you feel immediately the profound thinking behind his every word.
One example. For a man living 2,500 years ago he was downright rational and practical. He did not believe in superstitions and not in forecasting - still a 21st Century fascination! I certain he would frown on formulating strategy based on extrapolating upon past trends. His method is rigorous: know exactly what the enemy had planned. Now his 13th chapter on Spies is but a stringent demand upon strategists to get reliable information.
Next example. Reliable - real, actual information on plans of the enemy - is what Sun Tzu truly prizes. Yes, even more than cities! Now in the 21st Century, information remained the most critical, valuable for winning business wars. In other words for Sun Tzu wars are fought and won in our minds. That was why one of his prescriptions was for us to fight a war already won!
Another example. Sun Tzu by his Art of War unveiled the depth of his understanding of psychology. On motivation, he stipulated exactly when and how [one chariot for ten captured] to reward soldiers for their performance in battle. He suggested driving men deep into enemy's territory and not to linger along borders. Why? That in hostile territory, men turned united.
Most fascinating example: Sun Tzu set out a ranking criteria for the performance of Generals on strategy. The worst: Generals who had their armies scaling walls of cities in order to win over an enemy. The crème de la crème - those who win quietly without firing an arrow! In other words, he thought through deeply the art of strategy.
Sonshi.com: You said the New Millennium is an Age of Fusion of ideas, cultures, arts, disciplines, technology and sciences: the melding of art and science. Do you see that in Sun Tzu's teachings?
Foo: Sun Tzu being a Taoist is a self-learner, one who seeks a lifetime of mastering the arts, sciences, technology, music and other skills. In Art of War he drew metaphors from a diversity of sources. One reason why Sun Tzu is a favorite of corporate strategists? His work focused on the economics of war. Thus I could lead a workshop that focused on Sun Tzu's Art of War in Financial Management (see for example: www.sunsystems.com/sgevents). Or be invited to contribute articles on "The Accounting Mind of Sun Tzu".
Clearly from his chapter on "Terrain" you realize that he had to be good in his topography - what marketers interpret as understanding the "markets". This is not surprising as Taoists - or learned men of ancient China are familiar with feng-shui. Most interesting for us is how his mind translates knowledge of the grounds to strategic actions. Thus you read in The Art of War, Sun Tzu's taxonomy of nine situations and the appropriate strategy for each. I was impressed as that is how BCG consultants in the US map out product strategy. In other words, he is a master at creating strategy know-how.
Then clearly he knew something about medical science. For in ancient China, a Taoist is often knowledgeable about herbs and oneself in good health. This is suggested in his advocacy: keep troops away from dark, shadowy areas but camp on high, sunny grounds. Even more remarkable is his "engineering insights". When I lecture to engineers on Art of War I could cite passages as suggesting almost an "engineering, scientific" bent of mind:
Example: In chapter 5 on "Energy" (Lionel Giles), Sun Tzu said, "…Thus the energy developed by good fighting men is as the momentum of a round stone rolled down a mountain thousands of feet in height" [Consider, Newton's equation, F = ma (F, force; m mass; a acceleration); Einstein related energy (e = mc2) to mass (m) traveling at enormous speed (c - speed of light). In a broad, metaphorical sense, Sun Tzu perceived these relations too.
In the same Chapter, Sun Tzu cited "five musical notes", "five primary colors" and "five cardinal tastes". He argued it is through the skilful "combinations" of these one yields respectively an endless diversity of music, hues of colors and flavors.
Sonshi.com: Share with us an interesting incident in any one of your many Sun Tzu lectures, workshops, or conferences: something unexpected, funny, or downright strange. Feel free to change or omit the names of the innocent!
Foo: I had been in China time and again. For example I was a keynote speaker at the major Conference in Shanghai on the Future of Banking in China: my lecture was on how Chinese banks may apply The Art of War to counter the expected, post-WTO influx of foreign banks. There were quiet murmurs when I delivered in English for there was simultaneous translation. At question time however I chose to correct some of translated replies I made to questions asked. And there was instantaneous, all round applause! The applause grew when I decided to respond directly in Chinese myself at question-and-answer.
See how skeptical the Chinese are when an Art of War expert is not able to speak in their language. Besides a facility in Chinese I am a connoisseur of Chinese arts, for example I can differentiate a piece of Hong-Shan period jade from other periods. Or identify a Song ceramic or a Tang horse. These capabilities reinforce in the minds of Chinese that you are familiar their culture. Then they will much more prepared to hear you on how to apply The Art of War. Indeed one of the most heartfelt comments I received was a suggestion from one of the participants who spoke openly at the Conference, "Dr FOO, our leaders in Beijing, they should be here to listen to your Art of War lecture!"
In China and nowhere else, I found the audience nodding immediately and whole-heartedly whenever I asserted, "Strategy is a feminine skill." When I asked, "Who is the greatest Chinese Emperor in the art of strategy?" My reply is Wu Zetian. Yes a woman but she became the only woman to be Emperor. There is a vast difference between an Empress and Emperor. For that reason I created the novel "Imperial Mind". That is to provide readers a sense of the strategic mind of Wu Zetian at work. For example, she is one up on Sun Tzu on the art of using spies - read the book and you will find out.
Sonshi.com: In the coming decades, countless industry analysts predict the area of greatest economic growth is in Asia, particularly China. Do you think Eastern philosophies, such as Sun Tzu's, will have a significant impact on how the world conducts business (and how it sets social and political policies)?
Foo: I have a theory for the inevitable rise of China.
It is part of a super-mega trend: if you track rise and fall of countries over a thousand and five hundred years beginning from Tang Dynasty China. This "Winds of Change" theory is in my Eighth Discipline: The Realm of Deep Strategy, a management novel (futuristic, 2050)(target 2005). China no longer sees herself as the Middle Kingdom, not the Center of the World. Since 1980's China had begun a massive "Learning Revolution". Openly they are absorbing know-how from the world outside. Other than politics - this may change - China is adopting international practices.
Now the Chinese had always embraced changes. The classic text, I Ching originates from her soil. The word "I" is a pictograph suggesting change in the alternation of "moon" and "sun". Thus typically the Chinese mindset is more ready than others to embrace uncertainty. Look at The Art of War - Sun Tzu too demanded adaptation to changes. Why will the world embrace Chinese philosophy? You must realize one fact of life. To win over a competitor you must be able to read his mind. Indeed I have a picture inReminiscences of an Ancient Strategist (title: Immersion) to depict this: to read the mind of your competitor there is nothing better than to become him.
In the West, management drew from the military on leadership, teamwork, organizing etc. You can say in China, the Chinese learn the art of management and strategy through their favorite historical novels including the Three Kingdoms. In China almost everybody knows about the heroes, episodes and lessons that are drawn from San Guo or Three Kingdoms. So if you are corporate strategist having to compete in the future with Chinese MNC the likes of ATT, Micro-Soft, IBM, it will be necessary for you to be familiar too with strategy-related Chinese literature. Why? For I am certain these future Chinese MNCs will be employing staff armed with Western-styled MBA, people who understand how Americans approach strategy.
Sonshi.com: What is currently on your plate as far as research into Sun Tzu?
Foo:
Tao of Strategy
At present I am working towards completing six novellas exploring Tao Te Ching through exploring Tao of Strategy. For a deep appreciation of the Mind of Sun Tzu, you should try to grasp deeply the meanings behind Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching. For example, Sun Tzu's exaltation of "water" is rooted deeply in Taoist philosophy. Sun Tzu's highest ideal for a General of winning without fighting flows out of the philosophy of Tao: Wu-Wei or do by non-doing! You can get a deeper appreciation of Art of War - finer aspects in strategy making - by understanding Tao of Strategy.
More so if you are American, let me explain.
Initially I was so glad to see in Thirteen Days, the President of USA mentioning Sun Tzu. Then I was disappointed to find President Bush not applying this high-level, deep thinking in countering terrorism. I see President Bush pushes through legislation to rush American troops to Iraq. Fortunately, no gushing of American blood otherwise he will jeopardize his chance at re-election.
Like The Art of War, there are so many, many translations of Tao Te Ching but no novellas exploring deeply its meanings.
Book on Art of War articles
Next, I had written several major articles on Art of War and I intend to put them into a single volume.
Mind of Genghis Khan
I am reading up on biographies about the world's greatest conqueror. I want to explore deeply the Mind of Genghis Khan. For unlike Sun Tzu the "Art of War" of Genghis is written not on bamboos but found all over the continent of Asia. My job is to portray his strategic mind. Why is Genghis Khan so fascinating? He is illiterate yet he succeeded in 13th Century to do what both Napoleon and Hitler had failed: conquering Russia. The Mongol empire is still the largest empire the world had ever known. Most importantly, Genghis Khan rose from ground zero. He came back dominating the world despite being left with his brothers, sister and mother to die out in the Siberian wilderness!
Sonshi.com: What are your future plans?
Foo: I plan to build upon the public program of six days workshops - The Complete Art of War Series - into a comprehensive corporate yet self-development program. Participants who had attended the program launched by the Singapore Institute of Management had given very favorable evaluations. The program is for those who want to truly master the art of war. The process involved the participants in sharpening, then deepening their minds as part of the process of gaining mastery over strategy. Participants are encouraged to create their own book on Art of War relevant to their own field of interest. For example, a football coach may following the program create his Art of War for winning in football.
The next stage is to design a program specifically for CEOs only. The idea is for these CEOs to later supervise their managers in applying the art of war to a given product-business area. Their managers are expected to attend the far more intensive, hands-on six-days program. Through the CEO program of say, The Art of War for Corporate Leaders, we then encourage CEO-participants to implement The Art of War approach across their organizations by involving their managers deeply in the process. For it is critical to recognize that inside organizations it is the CEO who drives overall strategy. This corporate-wide program if implemented puts the CEOs in the driver's seat.
I am planning on my Sabbatical and now I am looking at possibilities. Also I wish to contribute to internationally refereed journal publications. Your fans of Art of War may wish to look up such literature for a better appreciation of in the spread of my work and interests. For example I had papers in British Journal of Industrial Relations, Organization Studies, Long Range Planning, International Journal of Human Resource Management, Cyber-Psychology and Behavior, Journal of High Technology Management Research, Omega, Corporate Communication, Foresight, Technovation and others. I like the rigor in the peer-review process and by contributing I keep my mind on the edge.
Besides this I wish to contribute as a Conceptual Artist: I had conceptualized many of the prints in Reminiscences of an Ancient Strategist. Next year I shall be having the National Arts Council of Singapore sponsoring my Solo Photography Exhibition: A Portrait of Vietnam. I am developing a series of symbolic, conceptual photography artwork related to strategy. Musically, I am growing - reading up on composers and exploring to find my voice: a unique piano style?
[End of interview]
Dr. Foo's credentials are impressive: Ph.D. (Strategy, St. Andrews), MBA in Finance (City University of London, postgraduate award winner), LLB (Hons, London), FCMA, FCIM, ACIS, Barrister-at-law, Advocate and Solicitor. His bookOrganizing Strategy: Sun Tzu Business Warcraft was chosen by Blackwell in Oxford as both Book-of-the-Month and Spring's Choice. Reminiscences of an Ancient Strategist: Mind of Sun Tzu was widely praised and was recommended by the prestigious London World Review. BBC also featured him in its Global Finance program. His research on corporate identity strategy won him an excellence award from the UK Literati Club.
Besides lecturing as Associate Professor at Nanyang Technological University in the College of Engineering, he is internationally affiliated - Honorary Research Professor of International Business at Copenhagen Business College, Denmark, Visiting Professor of Technology Strategy with the New York Institute of Technology, US; a registered UN consultant, Coordinator for Asia for the International Center for Corporate Identity Studies based in Glasgow, UK. He was formerly an Honorary Senior Research Fellow in Strategic Management at Scotland’s oldest university, the University of St. Andrews.
Needless to say, it is with great pleasure we at Sonshi.com bring you this exclusive interview with Dr. Foo Check Teck:
Sonshi.com: In addition to your lectures and workshops, a few of your notable works on Sun Tzu are Reminiscences of an Ancient Strategist: Mind of Sun Tzu, and Organising Strategy: Sun Tzu Business Warcraft. One of the interesting aspects of your research is the analysis of Sun Tzu's mind and how he thinks. Please tell our readers about what you discovered.
Foo: Oh a very good question.
My journey of discovery is long, arduous yet enjoyable. Putting my conclusions first. I believe your readers grasp the mind of Sun Tzu by creating their own Art of War. That is what Sun Tzu did! That is the best way to "see" his thinking. Sharpen and deepen your mind for mastering strategy.
Create your Art of War.
Believe me, it can be a very satisfying experience. I began to grasp deeply the mind of Sun Tzu through de-constructing his masterpiece. Most challenging is by trying to immerse myself into the Unconscious. Immersing into the Unconscious I discovered many suggestive imagery to be surrealist. Let your Unconscious work, if possible through deep, meditative reflection.
Try to experience the "A-ha!"
Sun Tzu has a Yin-Yang quality in his mind - both sharp and deep - one he uses to master strategy. In my opinion The Art of War is not written for publication and sale - as are books on strategy. Many of the "Art of War" works are but another translation - more of the same. In ancient China, The Art of War is priceless - more precious than translucent, green jades - a gift fit for the King.
The Art of War is for Sun Tzu a living document - one where he records "principles" that worked for him. Sun Tzu enhances his work with "tested" insights derived through his "experiences". "Experiences" interpreted broadly to include his readings, observations, encounters, interactions and more.
The bundle of bamboos was intended by Sun Tzu more for his personal use. These are ideas, concepts and techniques on strategy that Sun Tzu found to be effective. Clearly he drew from 2,500 years - counting from his time - of Chinese history. It is a work he was confident to present to a King. Most importantly Art of Work reflects his own learning and mastery in the art of strategy.
Imagine for yourself the working of his mind.
You can imagine Sun Tzu quickly reviewing his Art of War after having sharpened his mind on the critical issues, he then let his mind ponder deeply over strategy: how am I to counsel the King?
Why?
Reading The Art of War puts him and yourself too into a strategic frame of mind. Do not take my words for it. Test for yourself. Say you had to negotiate a major contract but you had a lousy weekend. Say, you are unsettled by a quarrel in the family.
What do you do?
Say the meeting could not be put off as the other party is already in town. Suppose you decided you had to go through the negotiation. My advice: sharpen your strategic mind.
How?
Run through The Art of War concepts. Identify what is relevant for the meeting. Use "Dr CT FOO's Cards on The Art of War" or even better still your own Art of War cards.
Ideally, you should follow Sun Tzu, make your own thinking tools - your own art of war - on ideas, concepts, techniques, principles particularly relevant to your business, industry, situation. I impart this technique through my "Sharpening Class" through the Singapore Institute of Management. Now my cards are to get you started. Yes, on an exciting journey to create your own! The entire six days intensive program The Complete Art of War Series is geared towards helping you be thinking like Sun Tzu and creating your own Art of War.
Sonshi.com: After successful careers in business (accounting, finance, law), since 1988 you have been a professor at Nanyang Technological University. Having been able to step back and view business from more of an outsider's perspective, do you think companies are following Sun Tzu's principles?
Foo: Yes.
In the first place, management is derived from the military. Examples: organization chart, its hierarchical levels, functional differentiation, allocation of duties etc. Indeed "Operations Research" emerges out of the Second World War. So it is not surprising for a military work to be relevant for managing large companies. The real difficulty is in discovering just how antiquated The Art of War is - 2,500 years - very old ideas, really. We are into fads, forever chasing the latest.
I found many more CEOs and entrepreneurs, especially those who had to compete at the edge are unconsciously applying Sun Tzu's ping-fa (transliterated as Law of Soldiering). That is a major contribution of my doctoral work done at the very ancient, 1411 University of St Andrews: a university where Prince Williams is studying.
My PhD thesis was empirically grounded, using a large-scale database, applying rigorous statistical analysis and across an entire ASEAN region. I surveyed top publicly listed corporations including perceptions of CEO, strategist and top manager. That is found inOrganizing Strategy: Sun Tzu Business Warcraft (selected by Blackwell in Oxford for Book-of-the-Month and then Spring's Choice). It is the very first study in the world documenting the relevance - metaphorically speaking - of The Art of War to strategic management of top, large, publicly listed corporations.
There is however much more to my research.
Organizing Strategy published in 1994 also unveils the underlying complexity and deepinter-connectivity of strategy process - evidencing that strategy processes are indeed consistent with chaos theory. In other words, those CEOs at cutting-edge areunconsciously applying The Art of War but not consciously in the "how-to-do-it" manner as advocated in many popular books on strategy or as taught in workshops.
Sonshi.com: You tell your students to tear up their awards and diplomas. You hate being rushed and having to meet set quotas for publication. And yet, you have many accolades and degrees in various disciplines and are a prolific author of numerous books and journals. We have heard some of your philosophies on this but perhaps you can share with our readers your thoughts on how you operate every day.
Foo: This is really a very personal question.
One secret that I shall share with your readers is that I still ask myself, "Who am I?" I am still searching for the answer. Yes, rediscovering myself - each and every day. I keep an "empty" mind. I do not restrict myself by thinking "I am a Sun Tzu" expert. If I do, very quickly I lose the flexibility, agility of an "empty" mind. Why? You can then predict, anticipate my every move. Yet the great beauty of Sun Tzu's work is that he emphasizes the highest ideal of a strategist: be utterly unpredictable! The goal is to remain innovative, do not become predictable.
How?
By tapping the deep innovativeness in your own unconscious mind. Now, if your mind stays clouded, how can your Unconscious ever communicate with you? How can you ever see things from a fresh, unconditioned perspective? How can you ever be truly flexible?
Of course, I use the term "mind" - singular - but in reality, the human mind is limitless. As you may already know I chant the Dharani Mantra (Ta Pei Chou, in Chinese) everyday. Now the mantra is that of Avalokitesvara in her thousand eyes and thousand hands form. The truth is our minds are limitless - our strong "ego" limits us. Thinking thus, "I am so and so." For example, I never regard myself as an Art of War expert - sonshi.com may see me as one.
I just keep an "empty mind".
Even now I read The Art of War with an "empty mind" - approaching the concepts embedded in the Chinese pictographs afresh each time. Every time there is a major event, eg. US-Iraq war I ask myself simply: How is Sun Tzu given his Art of War is likely to respond?
For me this self-renewal is key to how I operate.
It is best if I give an analogy.
I try never to play a piano piece the same way twice. I keep improvising my play by re-interpreting, re-exploring the themes, motifs, colors in a composition. Why? For me, I try to grasp the creative spirit of the composer - not just playing the piece. I try to ask myself, what if the composer had been alive, what else may he have had created? In other words, a written piece of work is but a means for me to try and grasp the creative spirit, the mind of the composer.
Sonshi.com: When did you first hear about Sun Tzu and his Art of War, and what was it about the book you found insightful?
Foo: As my late father is a Chinese language teacher and later School Principal, I had heard Sun Tzu's ping-fa being mentioned now and again. My teenage education is at the British-styled Raffles Institution (RI) - founded by Sir Stamford Raffles - I am into English literature: Julius Caesar, Animal Farm, To Kill a Mocking Bird.
My hot favorites remained historical biographies - I collect biographical works on great leaders/strategists: Mao Tsu Tung, Peter the Great, Genghis Khan, Cleopatra. Now I am reading McLynn's Napoleon and looking up for materials on China's First Emperor, Qin Shi Huang.
I first learn from my brother Dr FOO Check Tong PhD (Engineering Science) about the direct relevance of Sun Tzu's Art of War to my own research. He had seen my manuscript Organizing Strategy. His comments were that what I had found via rigorous statistical analyzes Sun Tzu already knew 2,500 years ago!
That was how deeply insightful Sun Tzu was on strategy - you need to read Organizing Strategy to truly appreciate how great a strategic thinker Sun Tzu was. His insights validated by me 2,500 years after it was written. Now I was using data from a very different though highly competitive arena - business. Yet it made a lot of sense since many of the early founders of top ASEAN corporations are ethnically Chinese. And among Chinese, Sun Tzu's Art of War is widely cited. Clearly these early Chinese businessmen lacked MBA training. Logically they must be using some mental framework to organize their businesses. My research showed Sun Tzu to be a major influence.
Later I collaborated with my brother to produce "Thinking around Stratagems". We attempted to present the deep wisdom of Chinese strategy by creative use of diagrams. Now, these 36 stratagems were immensely valuable: the person who presented it to the founding Tang Emperor was made a Prime Minister! In our book all the 36 stratagems were explained. The stratagems are metaphorically, like engineering formulae, eg. Einstein's e=mc2. Each stratagem is still relevant for solving real-world problems.
Sonshi.com: What still fascinates you about Sun Tzu?
Foo: It is the depth and thus the reliability of his strategic thinking.
In my opinion what he had recorded on bamboo strips as The Art of War he had probably tested himself through fighting his own battles. In other words, it is as rigorous and akin to our testing of hypotheses of strategy behavior through rigorous methodology. Read again The Art of War, you realize the immediacy of his words even via translation.
Now the period of Spring and Autumn in Chinese is a warring period and he lived through that. So Sun Tzu had the advantage of "laboratory of warring states" to test-develop, refine his concepts on Art of War. That is why the work is so "powerful" - and you feel immediately the profound thinking behind his every word.
One example. For a man living 2,500 years ago he was downright rational and practical. He did not believe in superstitions and not in forecasting - still a 21st Century fascination! I certain he would frown on formulating strategy based on extrapolating upon past trends. His method is rigorous: know exactly what the enemy had planned. Now his 13th chapter on Spies is but a stringent demand upon strategists to get reliable information.
Next example. Reliable - real, actual information on plans of the enemy - is what Sun Tzu truly prizes. Yes, even more than cities! Now in the 21st Century, information remained the most critical, valuable for winning business wars. In other words for Sun Tzu wars are fought and won in our minds. That was why one of his prescriptions was for us to fight a war already won!
Another example. Sun Tzu by his Art of War unveiled the depth of his understanding of psychology. On motivation, he stipulated exactly when and how [one chariot for ten captured] to reward soldiers for their performance in battle. He suggested driving men deep into enemy's territory and not to linger along borders. Why? That in hostile territory, men turned united.
Most fascinating example: Sun Tzu set out a ranking criteria for the performance of Generals on strategy. The worst: Generals who had their armies scaling walls of cities in order to win over an enemy. The crème de la crème - those who win quietly without firing an arrow! In other words, he thought through deeply the art of strategy.
Sonshi.com: You said the New Millennium is an Age of Fusion of ideas, cultures, arts, disciplines, technology and sciences: the melding of art and science. Do you see that in Sun Tzu's teachings?
Foo: Sun Tzu being a Taoist is a self-learner, one who seeks a lifetime of mastering the arts, sciences, technology, music and other skills. In Art of War he drew metaphors from a diversity of sources. One reason why Sun Tzu is a favorite of corporate strategists? His work focused on the economics of war. Thus I could lead a workshop that focused on Sun Tzu's Art of War in Financial Management (see for example: www.sunsystems.com/sgevents). Or be invited to contribute articles on "The Accounting Mind of Sun Tzu".
Clearly from his chapter on "Terrain" you realize that he had to be good in his topography - what marketers interpret as understanding the "markets". This is not surprising as Taoists - or learned men of ancient China are familiar with feng-shui. Most interesting for us is how his mind translates knowledge of the grounds to strategic actions. Thus you read in The Art of War, Sun Tzu's taxonomy of nine situations and the appropriate strategy for each. I was impressed as that is how BCG consultants in the US map out product strategy. In other words, he is a master at creating strategy know-how.
Then clearly he knew something about medical science. For in ancient China, a Taoist is often knowledgeable about herbs and oneself in good health. This is suggested in his advocacy: keep troops away from dark, shadowy areas but camp on high, sunny grounds. Even more remarkable is his "engineering insights". When I lecture to engineers on Art of War I could cite passages as suggesting almost an "engineering, scientific" bent of mind:
Example: In chapter 5 on "Energy" (Lionel Giles), Sun Tzu said, "…Thus the energy developed by good fighting men is as the momentum of a round stone rolled down a mountain thousands of feet in height" [Consider, Newton's equation, F = ma (F, force; m mass; a acceleration); Einstein related energy (e = mc2) to mass (m) traveling at enormous speed (c - speed of light). In a broad, metaphorical sense, Sun Tzu perceived these relations too.
In the same Chapter, Sun Tzu cited "five musical notes", "five primary colors" and "five cardinal tastes". He argued it is through the skilful "combinations" of these one yields respectively an endless diversity of music, hues of colors and flavors.
Sonshi.com: Share with us an interesting incident in any one of your many Sun Tzu lectures, workshops, or conferences: something unexpected, funny, or downright strange. Feel free to change or omit the names of the innocent!
Foo: I had been in China time and again. For example I was a keynote speaker at the major Conference in Shanghai on the Future of Banking in China: my lecture was on how Chinese banks may apply The Art of War to counter the expected, post-WTO influx of foreign banks. There were quiet murmurs when I delivered in English for there was simultaneous translation. At question time however I chose to correct some of translated replies I made to questions asked. And there was instantaneous, all round applause! The applause grew when I decided to respond directly in Chinese myself at question-and-answer.
See how skeptical the Chinese are when an Art of War expert is not able to speak in their language. Besides a facility in Chinese I am a connoisseur of Chinese arts, for example I can differentiate a piece of Hong-Shan period jade from other periods. Or identify a Song ceramic or a Tang horse. These capabilities reinforce in the minds of Chinese that you are familiar their culture. Then they will much more prepared to hear you on how to apply The Art of War. Indeed one of the most heartfelt comments I received was a suggestion from one of the participants who spoke openly at the Conference, "Dr FOO, our leaders in Beijing, they should be here to listen to your Art of War lecture!"
In China and nowhere else, I found the audience nodding immediately and whole-heartedly whenever I asserted, "Strategy is a feminine skill." When I asked, "Who is the greatest Chinese Emperor in the art of strategy?" My reply is Wu Zetian. Yes a woman but she became the only woman to be Emperor. There is a vast difference between an Empress and Emperor. For that reason I created the novel "Imperial Mind". That is to provide readers a sense of the strategic mind of Wu Zetian at work. For example, she is one up on Sun Tzu on the art of using spies - read the book and you will find out.
Sonshi.com: In the coming decades, countless industry analysts predict the area of greatest economic growth is in Asia, particularly China. Do you think Eastern philosophies, such as Sun Tzu's, will have a significant impact on how the world conducts business (and how it sets social and political policies)?
Foo: I have a theory for the inevitable rise of China.
It is part of a super-mega trend: if you track rise and fall of countries over a thousand and five hundred years beginning from Tang Dynasty China. This "Winds of Change" theory is in my Eighth Discipline: The Realm of Deep Strategy, a management novel (futuristic, 2050)(target 2005). China no longer sees herself as the Middle Kingdom, not the Center of the World. Since 1980's China had begun a massive "Learning Revolution". Openly they are absorbing know-how from the world outside. Other than politics - this may change - China is adopting international practices.
Now the Chinese had always embraced changes. The classic text, I Ching originates from her soil. The word "I" is a pictograph suggesting change in the alternation of "moon" and "sun". Thus typically the Chinese mindset is more ready than others to embrace uncertainty. Look at The Art of War - Sun Tzu too demanded adaptation to changes. Why will the world embrace Chinese philosophy? You must realize one fact of life. To win over a competitor you must be able to read his mind. Indeed I have a picture inReminiscences of an Ancient Strategist (title: Immersion) to depict this: to read the mind of your competitor there is nothing better than to become him.
In the West, management drew from the military on leadership, teamwork, organizing etc. You can say in China, the Chinese learn the art of management and strategy through their favorite historical novels including the Three Kingdoms. In China almost everybody knows about the heroes, episodes and lessons that are drawn from San Guo or Three Kingdoms. So if you are corporate strategist having to compete in the future with Chinese MNC the likes of ATT, Micro-Soft, IBM, it will be necessary for you to be familiar too with strategy-related Chinese literature. Why? For I am certain these future Chinese MNCs will be employing staff armed with Western-styled MBA, people who understand how Americans approach strategy.
Sonshi.com: What is currently on your plate as far as research into Sun Tzu?
Foo:
Tao of Strategy
At present I am working towards completing six novellas exploring Tao Te Ching through exploring Tao of Strategy. For a deep appreciation of the Mind of Sun Tzu, you should try to grasp deeply the meanings behind Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching. For example, Sun Tzu's exaltation of "water" is rooted deeply in Taoist philosophy. Sun Tzu's highest ideal for a General of winning without fighting flows out of the philosophy of Tao: Wu-Wei or do by non-doing! You can get a deeper appreciation of Art of War - finer aspects in strategy making - by understanding Tao of Strategy.
More so if you are American, let me explain.
Initially I was so glad to see in Thirteen Days, the President of USA mentioning Sun Tzu. Then I was disappointed to find President Bush not applying this high-level, deep thinking in countering terrorism. I see President Bush pushes through legislation to rush American troops to Iraq. Fortunately, no gushing of American blood otherwise he will jeopardize his chance at re-election.
Like The Art of War, there are so many, many translations of Tao Te Ching but no novellas exploring deeply its meanings.
Book on Art of War articles
Next, I had written several major articles on Art of War and I intend to put them into a single volume.
Mind of Genghis Khan
I am reading up on biographies about the world's greatest conqueror. I want to explore deeply the Mind of Genghis Khan. For unlike Sun Tzu the "Art of War" of Genghis is written not on bamboos but found all over the continent of Asia. My job is to portray his strategic mind. Why is Genghis Khan so fascinating? He is illiterate yet he succeeded in 13th Century to do what both Napoleon and Hitler had failed: conquering Russia. The Mongol empire is still the largest empire the world had ever known. Most importantly, Genghis Khan rose from ground zero. He came back dominating the world despite being left with his brothers, sister and mother to die out in the Siberian wilderness!
Sonshi.com: What are your future plans?
Foo: I plan to build upon the public program of six days workshops - The Complete Art of War Series - into a comprehensive corporate yet self-development program. Participants who had attended the program launched by the Singapore Institute of Management had given very favorable evaluations. The program is for those who want to truly master the art of war. The process involved the participants in sharpening, then deepening their minds as part of the process of gaining mastery over strategy. Participants are encouraged to create their own book on Art of War relevant to their own field of interest. For example, a football coach may following the program create his Art of War for winning in football.
The next stage is to design a program specifically for CEOs only. The idea is for these CEOs to later supervise their managers in applying the art of war to a given product-business area. Their managers are expected to attend the far more intensive, hands-on six-days program. Through the CEO program of say, The Art of War for Corporate Leaders, we then encourage CEO-participants to implement The Art of War approach across their organizations by involving their managers deeply in the process. For it is critical to recognize that inside organizations it is the CEO who drives overall strategy. This corporate-wide program if implemented puts the CEOs in the driver's seat.
I am planning on my Sabbatical and now I am looking at possibilities. Also I wish to contribute to internationally refereed journal publications. Your fans of Art of War may wish to look up such literature for a better appreciation of in the spread of my work and interests. For example I had papers in British Journal of Industrial Relations, Organization Studies, Long Range Planning, International Journal of Human Resource Management, Cyber-Psychology and Behavior, Journal of High Technology Management Research, Omega, Corporate Communication, Foresight, Technovation and others. I like the rigor in the peer-review process and by contributing I keep my mind on the edge.
Besides this I wish to contribute as a Conceptual Artist: I had conceptualized many of the prints in Reminiscences of an Ancient Strategist. Next year I shall be having the National Arts Council of Singapore sponsoring my Solo Photography Exhibition: A Portrait of Vietnam. I am developing a series of symbolic, conceptual photography artwork related to strategy. Musically, I am growing - reading up on composers and exploring to find my voice: a unique piano style?
[End of interview]