Jodi Wing interview
In the British 1960s television series called The Avengers there was a character named Emma Peel. She was a spy, a genius (scientist), and kicking butt (martial artist). However, she wasn't masculine and didn't act like a man; Emma was all woman -- especially in catsuit -- a feminist heroine who could take care of herself and rescue others.
To be sure Emma Peel was a work of fiction, but now anyone who says a woman can never be a government spy, scientist, or martial artist (or all of those) is still living in the 60s. Sadly, here illustrates the chasm between fiction and reality at the time: When Diana Rigg, the actress who played Emma Peel, left the television series her salary was less than the cameraman's. Nowadays, such egregiousness is countered by efforts such as the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act which was recently signed into law by US President Barack Obama on January 29, 2009.
In comparable spirit as Emma Peel is Stacey Knight (Knight was Emma's maiden name), our heroine in The Art of Social War, a new novel and literary debut by Jodi Wing. Reflective of the author's own situation, Stacey endures a radical culture change after moving to Los Angeles from New York. She is both a wife and successful executive, and has to juggle the two roles which together require nothing less than super powers. Mix in the money and glamor of Hollywood, behaviors reminiscent of hormone-enraged teenagers, and Sun Tzu's Art of War except without its soft warm fuzziness -- and, well, pretty soon you have a crazy exciting plot on your hands.
Beneath the surface of this fun read, this self-described chick-lit book illustrates perfectly the empowered modern woman. Stacey loves her husband and sees her marriage as first priority. Otherwise she would have never given up her career and move across the country. Paralleling this fact, however, is an accomplished businesswoman who understands the intricacies of office politics and marketing campaigns as much as she understands the latest sartorial fashion and which hors d'oeuvres to serve house guests.
These and other complexities the typical working woman encounters are not unlike what Sun Tzu encountered just before the start of the Warring States Period in 5th century BCE. A smaller but intelligent faction competing against various larger factions in an environment filled with subtle dangers, limitations, and opportunities. As Sun Tzu would advise, women must face the future with the same cautious optimism -- never giving up their invincibility (who they are) and always looking out for advantage (using their abilities).
The fictional Stacey Knight and her creator Jodi Wing are so similar, there is difficulty separating the two. And that should come as a powerful message for friends and foes alike whether real or imagined: Stacey/Jodi may not own a catsuit, but she can still kick butt in The Art of Social War. We look forward to reading more of her Hollywood adventures.
Learn more about Ms. Wing and her excellent novel The Art of Social War at TheArtOfSocialWar.com. For women: You can also submit your own "war" stories there.
We're pleased to present the following Sonshi.com interview with Jodi Wing, author and Woman Warrior.
Sonshi.com: How did you first come across Sun Tzu's The Art of War, and what is it about this Chinese classic that still interests you?
Wing: I was first introduced to The Art of War during my freshman year at Colgate University as part of a required Philosophy & Religion course. It fascinated me then, but I didn't fully recognize a personal application until I entered the working world as a marketing executive and began assessing competitive environments and resources, planning and executing winning strategies. When I later became a sports/entertainment strategic consultant, the principles really came to life, helping me hold my own professionally and grow as an independent businesswoman.especially navigating the male-dominated sports marketing arena.
And then, six years ago I went through a major life transition, and only semi-willingly relocated from New York to Los Angeles. At the time, I could only see this as leaving .home' and entering .hostile,' intimidating territory. I saw so many correlations between Sun Tzu's interpersonal lessons and my brand-new life; I had to .get the lay of the land,' meet and assess the .feudal lords' and the .local guides'-- and figure out where I fit in, who I could trust. It was like starting junior high school all over again, except that I was in my thirties, my eyes were wide open. All those hesitant feelings I had back then came flooding back in a rush. I felt compelled to write it through, and created Stacey to help me explore this daunting yet thrilling Technicolor world. I knew fairly quickly I wanted to incorporate the principles into a larger story, to use the Art of War as almost a field-guide to a modern-day life strategy. Thus, within my first year I dusted off my well-highlighted Sawyer translation and was off to the races, as it were.
Sonshi.com: Our focus at Sonshi.com during the last few years has been with women readers of The Art of War. There are many important reasons why women, more than any group, would benefit greatly from Sun Tzu's book. From your own experience, what do you think some of those reasons are?
Wing: For strictly business or sports-centric purposes, women and men (and teens) can of course gain insight equally. But sociologically speaking.I believe the overt benefits to women would be Sun Tzu's counsel re Confrontation and Negotiation. In researching my novel (and therefore researching myself and peer group as part of character motivation and behavior), it seemed to me that generally, women are raised to be .nice' and are learned pleasers; lack of affirmation and/or silence makes us uncomfortable and emotionally vulnerable. We're not taught to be overtly aggressive, whether in actions or in putting ourselves forward for recognition or compensation. Diligent, hard work and other personal excellence will be objectively recognized by those in power and then justly rewarded.? Hmm.
I'm particularly excited that my website, www.theartofsocialwar.com, launches this week. We are creating a real-life Coyote Club as in the book (women who band together to defend against predatory behavior, real and metaphorical.) I am encouraging women to become inspired and empowered by The Art of War, to become Women Warriors, as Stacey did. A section of the site features .War Stories,' real women's tales of triumph from their own .front lines' of battle, confronting and overcoming bad behavior in all its many forms. I then highlight the Art of War principles that were applied (either consciously or just instinctively) for a successful outcome. I hope your readers will check them out and consider contributing a .War Story' of their own!
Sonshi.com: Now let's talk about your first novel .The Art of Social War.. We read it and simply love the plot! What prompted you to write the story?
Wing: I always say that I have two favorite subjects to write about: Very Bad Behavior and Girl-on-Girl Crime. Luckily/unluckily for me, I landed at Ground Zero for both. In retrospect, I'm so happy I did.
The premise was (again) inspired by my own difficult transition from NY to LA. It's a .fish-out-of-water' tale. I definitely felt .lost in translation' between the two Coasts. from being a single, working woman in New York City, and then married to an entertainment executive in the film world, in Hollywood. I created Stacey, in a way, to help me process it all through. There were two sayings I'd heard before moving: . Hollywood is like high-school with money,' and . Hollywood is Washington for pretty people.' Well, I liken Hollywood to Washington AND to high school, at the same time: an established, glamorized, highly seductive.and yet highly insular one-industry town where everyone knows everyone else, and everyone seems to know the .rules of the game.' Except you. There seemed to be one finite .pie' of power, glory, and money.and one piece of that .pie' for you, is one less for someone else. Insider vs. Outsider. Sun Tzu's idea that everything boils down to terrain.turf, a land-grab; seemed very real indeed. Moral and ethical contradictions, social and political pressures and the subsequent intrigues.Very Bad Behavior, abounded.
I choose to see it all as dark comedy, as satire. The scandals, the details; that's where the fun is. I've written an allegory between wild coyotes-- the four-legged predators roaming the Hills of Hollywood eating Bichon Frises at will.and the two-legged, equally predatory mogul types (and, of course, those much dreaded, formidable Hollywood Wives) doing much the same. Except clad in Armani and Gucci. My version of Stairway to Heaven! The results, I hope, are highly entertaining.
Sonshi.com: Your novel gives outsiders an inside look at how the Hollywood elite live and think. Are they really that out of touch with reality? There must be some sane ones out there.
Wing: There are plenty of savvy, creative, terrific people-- and crazy and mean-spirited and annoying people, too. Just like anywhere else, in any industry, suburb or country club you could name. It is possible to be informed by one's circumstances, as opposed to being defined by them. But of course, a stereotype usually (always?) has more than a grain of truth to it. There certainly are those that exemplify the sociopathic, narcissistic character traits of Hollywood kingpins and mavens, real and fictional. From Budd Schulberg's What Makes Sammy Run, anything by Jackie Collins, to Jeremy Piven's slick agent in Entourage (and real-life infamies such as Mike Ovitz and Anthony Pellicano), there are generally recognizable, predatory composite behaviors and glamorized details specific to Hollywood. And the fun (to me) of setting my story in Hollywood is in the details, where everything is augmented (bustlines and egos andassets!)
People are of course very much in touch with their own pressured realities. and make no mistake, the entertainment business, from the inside, really can seem like war. It's an intensely competitive environment, with talent, studios, networks, agencies et al jostling for attention, funding, ratings and box office. And it's tallied and scored and judged on a very public scale. You're only as good as your last project, so it's all very fluid and urgent. Hollywood is an extreme culture.the seven deadly sins are front and center on display, and the .spoils of war' are grand and compelling. All this heightens anxiety, insecurity and desire, which in turn manifests into some pretty wild behaviors. But at the end of the day, entertainment is an industry.an export, like any other, but with a unique veneer of gloss and shine and desirability all its own.
Sonshi.com: Although there are some ruthless enemies in .The Art of Social War,. namely Simon Mallis, politically speaking do you think there are Simon Mallises in almost every office? How can women best handle individuals like him?
Wing: Of course. There are Simon AND Julia Mallises (Stacey's nemesis and Simon's Hollywood-Wife-With-Tenure) in offices, country-clubs-- and in the PTA and book clubs, too. Bullying is bullying, and sadly, it exists everywhere, in every age-range. When office .leadership' turns into .dominance,' as in Simon/Jamey's case, or if it's more an issue of psychological and social intimidation as in the Stacey/Julia scenario, the derisive, belittling results are the same: victims' become isolated, anxious, feel increasingly traumatized and trapped.
Our very first War Story, just up on the website now, illustrates perfectly such a scenario, woman vs. male boss. Please take a look. It's an excellent example from a great friend of mine, a woman sports agent, and I chose it because Marla handled herself brilliantly, shifted the balance of power to her favor (without fighting), and won. Sun Tzu would indeed be proud. These conflagrations typify many of the War Stories I'm hearing from friends and readers.and yet again goes to sonshi.com's excellent point about women being able to learn much from Sun Tzu: learning to confront and negotiate without allowing emotions (and one's own defensive nature) to get the better of you.
I will say that I am fascinated by women bullying other women, especially in the workplace. I intend to explore this more fully in both the War Stories section as well as the sequel.
Sonshi.com: One of your childhood heroines is Emma Peel from the 1960s British television series, The Avengers. What are some of the attributes you liked about her and do they have any connection to Stacey Knight, the heroine of The Art of Social War?
Wing: Avengers fans will recognize that Stacey's maiden name, Knight, is that of Emma herself. She was and is a feminist role-model (albeit a fictional, sci-fi one) of self-sufficiency, brilliance, and grace in a male-dominated world. She was rarely bested in any fight and rescued her partner, John Steed, as often as he rescued her. She excelled at martial arts, painting, fencing, and sciences.very untraditional for a woman of her era. Throughout the series, she never once loses her composure. Oh.and those catsuits! Outstanding fashion sense! Stacey (and I) respond to her for all these reasons, and Stacey looks to her for courage in staying her course and overcoming her adversaries (the four and two-legged ones) in a .Sting' caper of which I am particularly proud!
Sonshi.com: We understand that there is already a movie deal for The Art of Social War.
Wing: The book has indeed been optioned for film and is currently in development at MGM Studios. I do have of course have ideas re casting etc., I just don't know how much choice I will have. For the moment I choose to remain formless, as water..! But, when there is any announcement, casting or otherwise, sonshi.com readers will be among the first to know.
Sonshi.com: What is next?
Wing: I am currently working on the sequel to The Art of Social War (oh, just wait til you see what happens next!), and I am also compiling and annotating the afore-mentioned .War Stories,' with an eye towards creating a non-fiction .field-guide' to Girl World, based on The Art of War. Additionally, I've been developing another project, entitled .Brenda, Three Faces Ago.' It is a dark comedy as well, one that explores aging in a cosmetics-obsessed society.
[End of interview]
To be sure Emma Peel was a work of fiction, but now anyone who says a woman can never be a government spy, scientist, or martial artist (or all of those) is still living in the 60s. Sadly, here illustrates the chasm between fiction and reality at the time: When Diana Rigg, the actress who played Emma Peel, left the television series her salary was less than the cameraman's. Nowadays, such egregiousness is countered by efforts such as the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act which was recently signed into law by US President Barack Obama on January 29, 2009.
In comparable spirit as Emma Peel is Stacey Knight (Knight was Emma's maiden name), our heroine in The Art of Social War, a new novel and literary debut by Jodi Wing. Reflective of the author's own situation, Stacey endures a radical culture change after moving to Los Angeles from New York. She is both a wife and successful executive, and has to juggle the two roles which together require nothing less than super powers. Mix in the money and glamor of Hollywood, behaviors reminiscent of hormone-enraged teenagers, and Sun Tzu's Art of War except without its soft warm fuzziness -- and, well, pretty soon you have a crazy exciting plot on your hands.
Beneath the surface of this fun read, this self-described chick-lit book illustrates perfectly the empowered modern woman. Stacey loves her husband and sees her marriage as first priority. Otherwise she would have never given up her career and move across the country. Paralleling this fact, however, is an accomplished businesswoman who understands the intricacies of office politics and marketing campaigns as much as she understands the latest sartorial fashion and which hors d'oeuvres to serve house guests.
These and other complexities the typical working woman encounters are not unlike what Sun Tzu encountered just before the start of the Warring States Period in 5th century BCE. A smaller but intelligent faction competing against various larger factions in an environment filled with subtle dangers, limitations, and opportunities. As Sun Tzu would advise, women must face the future with the same cautious optimism -- never giving up their invincibility (who they are) and always looking out for advantage (using their abilities).
The fictional Stacey Knight and her creator Jodi Wing are so similar, there is difficulty separating the two. And that should come as a powerful message for friends and foes alike whether real or imagined: Stacey/Jodi may not own a catsuit, but she can still kick butt in The Art of Social War. We look forward to reading more of her Hollywood adventures.
Learn more about Ms. Wing and her excellent novel The Art of Social War at TheArtOfSocialWar.com. For women: You can also submit your own "war" stories there.
We're pleased to present the following Sonshi.com interview with Jodi Wing, author and Woman Warrior.
Sonshi.com: How did you first come across Sun Tzu's The Art of War, and what is it about this Chinese classic that still interests you?
Wing: I was first introduced to The Art of War during my freshman year at Colgate University as part of a required Philosophy & Religion course. It fascinated me then, but I didn't fully recognize a personal application until I entered the working world as a marketing executive and began assessing competitive environments and resources, planning and executing winning strategies. When I later became a sports/entertainment strategic consultant, the principles really came to life, helping me hold my own professionally and grow as an independent businesswoman.especially navigating the male-dominated sports marketing arena.
And then, six years ago I went through a major life transition, and only semi-willingly relocated from New York to Los Angeles. At the time, I could only see this as leaving .home' and entering .hostile,' intimidating territory. I saw so many correlations between Sun Tzu's interpersonal lessons and my brand-new life; I had to .get the lay of the land,' meet and assess the .feudal lords' and the .local guides'-- and figure out where I fit in, who I could trust. It was like starting junior high school all over again, except that I was in my thirties, my eyes were wide open. All those hesitant feelings I had back then came flooding back in a rush. I felt compelled to write it through, and created Stacey to help me explore this daunting yet thrilling Technicolor world. I knew fairly quickly I wanted to incorporate the principles into a larger story, to use the Art of War as almost a field-guide to a modern-day life strategy. Thus, within my first year I dusted off my well-highlighted Sawyer translation and was off to the races, as it were.
Sonshi.com: Our focus at Sonshi.com during the last few years has been with women readers of The Art of War. There are many important reasons why women, more than any group, would benefit greatly from Sun Tzu's book. From your own experience, what do you think some of those reasons are?
Wing: For strictly business or sports-centric purposes, women and men (and teens) can of course gain insight equally. But sociologically speaking.I believe the overt benefits to women would be Sun Tzu's counsel re Confrontation and Negotiation. In researching my novel (and therefore researching myself and peer group as part of character motivation and behavior), it seemed to me that generally, women are raised to be .nice' and are learned pleasers; lack of affirmation and/or silence makes us uncomfortable and emotionally vulnerable. We're not taught to be overtly aggressive, whether in actions or in putting ourselves forward for recognition or compensation. Diligent, hard work and other personal excellence will be objectively recognized by those in power and then justly rewarded.? Hmm.
I'm particularly excited that my website, www.theartofsocialwar.com, launches this week. We are creating a real-life Coyote Club as in the book (women who band together to defend against predatory behavior, real and metaphorical.) I am encouraging women to become inspired and empowered by The Art of War, to become Women Warriors, as Stacey did. A section of the site features .War Stories,' real women's tales of triumph from their own .front lines' of battle, confronting and overcoming bad behavior in all its many forms. I then highlight the Art of War principles that were applied (either consciously or just instinctively) for a successful outcome. I hope your readers will check them out and consider contributing a .War Story' of their own!
Sonshi.com: Now let's talk about your first novel .The Art of Social War.. We read it and simply love the plot! What prompted you to write the story?
Wing: I always say that I have two favorite subjects to write about: Very Bad Behavior and Girl-on-Girl Crime. Luckily/unluckily for me, I landed at Ground Zero for both. In retrospect, I'm so happy I did.
The premise was (again) inspired by my own difficult transition from NY to LA. It's a .fish-out-of-water' tale. I definitely felt .lost in translation' between the two Coasts. from being a single, working woman in New York City, and then married to an entertainment executive in the film world, in Hollywood. I created Stacey, in a way, to help me process it all through. There were two sayings I'd heard before moving: . Hollywood is like high-school with money,' and . Hollywood is Washington for pretty people.' Well, I liken Hollywood to Washington AND to high school, at the same time: an established, glamorized, highly seductive.and yet highly insular one-industry town where everyone knows everyone else, and everyone seems to know the .rules of the game.' Except you. There seemed to be one finite .pie' of power, glory, and money.and one piece of that .pie' for you, is one less for someone else. Insider vs. Outsider. Sun Tzu's idea that everything boils down to terrain.turf, a land-grab; seemed very real indeed. Moral and ethical contradictions, social and political pressures and the subsequent intrigues.Very Bad Behavior, abounded.
I choose to see it all as dark comedy, as satire. The scandals, the details; that's where the fun is. I've written an allegory between wild coyotes-- the four-legged predators roaming the Hills of Hollywood eating Bichon Frises at will.and the two-legged, equally predatory mogul types (and, of course, those much dreaded, formidable Hollywood Wives) doing much the same. Except clad in Armani and Gucci. My version of Stairway to Heaven! The results, I hope, are highly entertaining.
Sonshi.com: Your novel gives outsiders an inside look at how the Hollywood elite live and think. Are they really that out of touch with reality? There must be some sane ones out there.
Wing: There are plenty of savvy, creative, terrific people-- and crazy and mean-spirited and annoying people, too. Just like anywhere else, in any industry, suburb or country club you could name. It is possible to be informed by one's circumstances, as opposed to being defined by them. But of course, a stereotype usually (always?) has more than a grain of truth to it. There certainly are those that exemplify the sociopathic, narcissistic character traits of Hollywood kingpins and mavens, real and fictional. From Budd Schulberg's What Makes Sammy Run, anything by Jackie Collins, to Jeremy Piven's slick agent in Entourage (and real-life infamies such as Mike Ovitz and Anthony Pellicano), there are generally recognizable, predatory composite behaviors and glamorized details specific to Hollywood. And the fun (to me) of setting my story in Hollywood is in the details, where everything is augmented (bustlines and egos andassets!)
People are of course very much in touch with their own pressured realities. and make no mistake, the entertainment business, from the inside, really can seem like war. It's an intensely competitive environment, with talent, studios, networks, agencies et al jostling for attention, funding, ratings and box office. And it's tallied and scored and judged on a very public scale. You're only as good as your last project, so it's all very fluid and urgent. Hollywood is an extreme culture.the seven deadly sins are front and center on display, and the .spoils of war' are grand and compelling. All this heightens anxiety, insecurity and desire, which in turn manifests into some pretty wild behaviors. But at the end of the day, entertainment is an industry.an export, like any other, but with a unique veneer of gloss and shine and desirability all its own.
Sonshi.com: Although there are some ruthless enemies in .The Art of Social War,. namely Simon Mallis, politically speaking do you think there are Simon Mallises in almost every office? How can women best handle individuals like him?
Wing: Of course. There are Simon AND Julia Mallises (Stacey's nemesis and Simon's Hollywood-Wife-With-Tenure) in offices, country-clubs-- and in the PTA and book clubs, too. Bullying is bullying, and sadly, it exists everywhere, in every age-range. When office .leadership' turns into .dominance,' as in Simon/Jamey's case, or if it's more an issue of psychological and social intimidation as in the Stacey/Julia scenario, the derisive, belittling results are the same: victims' become isolated, anxious, feel increasingly traumatized and trapped.
Our very first War Story, just up on the website now, illustrates perfectly such a scenario, woman vs. male boss. Please take a look. It's an excellent example from a great friend of mine, a woman sports agent, and I chose it because Marla handled herself brilliantly, shifted the balance of power to her favor (without fighting), and won. Sun Tzu would indeed be proud. These conflagrations typify many of the War Stories I'm hearing from friends and readers.and yet again goes to sonshi.com's excellent point about women being able to learn much from Sun Tzu: learning to confront and negotiate without allowing emotions (and one's own defensive nature) to get the better of you.
I will say that I am fascinated by women bullying other women, especially in the workplace. I intend to explore this more fully in both the War Stories section as well as the sequel.
Sonshi.com: One of your childhood heroines is Emma Peel from the 1960s British television series, The Avengers. What are some of the attributes you liked about her and do they have any connection to Stacey Knight, the heroine of The Art of Social War?
Wing: Avengers fans will recognize that Stacey's maiden name, Knight, is that of Emma herself. She was and is a feminist role-model (albeit a fictional, sci-fi one) of self-sufficiency, brilliance, and grace in a male-dominated world. She was rarely bested in any fight and rescued her partner, John Steed, as often as he rescued her. She excelled at martial arts, painting, fencing, and sciences.very untraditional for a woman of her era. Throughout the series, she never once loses her composure. Oh.and those catsuits! Outstanding fashion sense! Stacey (and I) respond to her for all these reasons, and Stacey looks to her for courage in staying her course and overcoming her adversaries (the four and two-legged ones) in a .Sting' caper of which I am particularly proud!
Sonshi.com: We understand that there is already a movie deal for The Art of Social War.
Wing: The book has indeed been optioned for film and is currently in development at MGM Studios. I do have of course have ideas re casting etc., I just don't know how much choice I will have. For the moment I choose to remain formless, as water..! But, when there is any announcement, casting or otherwise, sonshi.com readers will be among the first to know.
Sonshi.com: What is next?
Wing: I am currently working on the sequel to The Art of Social War (oh, just wait til you see what happens next!), and I am also compiling and annotating the afore-mentioned .War Stories,' with an eye towards creating a non-fiction .field-guide' to Girl World, based on The Art of War. Additionally, I've been developing another project, entitled .Brenda, Three Faces Ago.' It is a dark comedy as well, one that explores aging in a cosmetics-obsessed society.
[End of interview]