Puja McClymont interview
Puja McClymont, founder of Frankly Coaching
Clay Christensen, a Harvard professor and author of The Innovator's Dilemma, said that smart people and businesses never plan to fail and have every intention and put every effort to succeed. The problem, according to Christensen, is too many smart people, eager to succeed, erroneously focus on short-term gains instead of working and waiting for worthwhile gains that won't be seen for at least ten years.
For example, the healthy and full development of our children won't be seen for at least ten years, similar to the profitability of an important technology won't be seen for at least ten years. Yet some parents focus on activities that they can see gains right away, likewise some large corporations focus only on capital projects' returns for the next five years, maximum. Years payback is emphasized over NPV. The result, unfortunately, is usually quite disappointing.
So when people doubt Sun Tzu's wisdom of leaving an outlet for a retreating enemy or to treat captured enemies well, they are thinking short-term. Sun Tzu's vision extends over the mountain. He sees that with respectful treatment of others, benefits would naturally result many years later. Enemies have nothing to hang their hate on, and with much luck, eventual appreciation for the kindness shown.
Sun Tzu didn't gain this wisdom without painful experience. However, Sun Tzu had the intelligence to adjust and change course, to do things different from the past. Our special guest today, Ms. Puja McClymont, a certified NLP life and business coach and founder of Frankly Coaching, has the same mindset. After overcoming two major challenges in her life, she acquired much wisdom. Like Sun Tzu, Ms. McClymont became more strategic:
For example, the healthy and full development of our children won't be seen for at least ten years, similar to the profitability of an important technology won't be seen for at least ten years. Yet some parents focus on activities that they can see gains right away, likewise some large corporations focus only on capital projects' returns for the next five years, maximum. Years payback is emphasized over NPV. The result, unfortunately, is usually quite disappointing.
So when people doubt Sun Tzu's wisdom of leaving an outlet for a retreating enemy or to treat captured enemies well, they are thinking short-term. Sun Tzu's vision extends over the mountain. He sees that with respectful treatment of others, benefits would naturally result many years later. Enemies have nothing to hang their hate on, and with much luck, eventual appreciation for the kindness shown.
Sun Tzu didn't gain this wisdom without painful experience. However, Sun Tzu had the intelligence to adjust and change course, to do things different from the past. Our special guest today, Ms. Puja McClymont, a certified NLP life and business coach and founder of Frankly Coaching, has the same mindset. After overcoming two major challenges in her life, she acquired much wisdom. Like Sun Tzu, Ms. McClymont became more strategic:
"I started to live for me rather than the version of myself I thought I should be living. I started to understand self-awareness and reviewed my life thus far in all its parts in order to be better internally and as a person." Puja McClymont
As you will see later in her frank interview, what is important in our lives changes as we mature. Our vision and path become clearer. The moment we go from changing our purpose to fit our circumstances to changing our circumstances to fit our purpose we feel more empowered. This empowerment -- being fierce, a word Puja McClymont likes to use -- requires strategy. Few individuals in world history is better at strategy than Sun Tzu, and so when we saw Ms. McClymont started an incisive series of Sun Tzu lessons from Chin-Ning Chu's book The Art of War for Women, we knew we had to invite her here for a discussion.
"I use the Art of War as a one of my tools for change and to demonstrate perspective and reality with both individual and company clients. I especially like to use Chin-ning Chu’s Art of War for Women with my female clients as it really helps to change perspective and learn some great techniques to get ahead and manage common challenges in a simple and effective way." Puja McClymont
Professionals of all ages can learn much from her life and business experience, and companies would benefit from her deep understanding of employees to unlock people's performance at all levels. They are certain to gain the fierceness they were born with. After all, we know a certain boy who was born two months early but who already possesses such fierceness already. Like all children, he is a worthwhile investment to be working and waiting for.
Below is our interview with Puja McClymont. Enjoy!
Below is our interview with Puja McClymont. Enjoy!
Sonshi: You've had some challenges in your life. Please share with us how you approached them and how you were able to bounce back.
McClymont: The two biggest challenges I have faced in my life have been depression and my son being born 2 months early.
I had a breakdown in 2012 which was diagnosed as depression. I phoned a friend’s mum to ask her what was happening to me as after the 4th time that day I couldn’t stop crying and was just a pile of sadness on the floor. I needed to speak to someone caring, maternal and nurturing and she has always been there for me in this way. Once I had described what was going on, she told me I was having a nervous breakdown and that I needed to seek help immediately. I didn’t really understand depression at the time and after googling found that I had been exhibiting all the symptoms for almost a year.
After seeing my doctor who wanted to prescribe pills which I didn’t feel comfortable taking, my friend’s mum suggested I come and stay with her for a few months in her rural home in Mexico; in order to get away from my life and try to reset. I wasn’t sure that this would ‘heal’ me and it didn’t completely but it certainly was the best thing for me to have done. By being away from my day to day, I was able to silence myself, spend time on my self-care, listen to my intuition and really hone into the roots of my sadness. When I returned, I was ready to continue my journey to healing which included a change of scenery in work, counseling and doing more things that I enjoyed doing.
It was also the beginning of the rest of my life. I had indeed reset and started to live for me rather than the version of myself I thought I should be living. I started to understand self-awareness and reviewed my life thus far in all its parts in order to be better internally and as a person.
In 2015 I had a difficult pregnancy with my son. We found out we were pregnant and like most people we weren’t ready but at the age of 35, I’m of the mindset that you go with it. And we did. We did all we could to be ‘ready’ for this change in our lives and were looking forward to all of it. However, after my 12 week scan, we were told that the baby was small. This didn’t mean anything to us, all his organs were forming, he had all his fingers and toes and the doctors didn't really explain what this meant. I continued to work and manage my pregnancy. By 20 weeks, it was getting more serious and they said that it was likely that he’d be born early. Again, this didn’t concern me, I thought, they’d deliver when he was fully cooked, and he’d be in good hands, surely this is all.
Well, not really. He was due on Valentine’s day and had to be delivered at 30 weeks (7 months) so was born mid December. Now this was scary. My stress levels were through the roof and we tried to do all we could to keep me as calm as possible but anything coming between a mother and her child just has no chance. I was fiercely pragmatic. I had to be. I trusted in my care, I trusted in the support from my husband and family and I had to trust spiritually. I trusted that my son would be just as strong and resilient like his parents and that all would be well. I had to. If I had entertained even an ounce of negative thinking, I would have fallen so deep into depression that my son may not have had a chance. I believe that babies feel your emotions too so it was imperative that I stayed above my sadness and fears to ensure his best chances. I had to fight. I fought with myself, with God, with everything. I had to trust in something I had no idea about and I had to believe that all would be well. And it was. We were very fortunate. He was born screaming. He was the smallest baby in the NICU unit and the loudest. He went from strength to strength each day and after two months, finally came home to us. On the day of his birth, I was a complete mess, in tears, scared and anxious right up until the point at which he was born and I heard those lungs!
After that, I was in fierce mama mode and just wanted to see him. After recovery, I was persistent and was finally able to see him. The shock of the first meeting is indescribable. I wasn’t allowed to hold him when he was born so between his birth and me meeting him, it was 8 hours. The next morning, I woke early and was eagerly trying to leave the maternity ward to go to him. When I was finally allowed, I put on my make up, wore fresh clothes and ensured I looked good. This sounds fickle but after experiencing depression, one of the most notable things I had learned was about self-care. By just making myself look even slightly presentable, I felt like I could do anything. I felt confident, strong and resilient. I wanted my son to feel this too. I didn’t want him to feel any of the sadness and fear. And it really helped. I felt ‘together’ for the two months of daily hospital visits that followed. I felt strong and capable and trusted that all would be well. “Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak.”
Sonshi: What stops many people from performing closer to their potential?
McClymont: The most common issue that holds people back from fulfilling their potential is FEAR. Fear manifests in various guises from not having enough money, fear of failing, not having enough confidence and the usual bouts of stress and anxiety of change. As a Life Coach, I regularly see fear as the prime reason people get stuck and why they have difficulty moving forward with their plans/goals/dreams. We of course have very real issues, the fears that I’ve described are not to be dismissed however. In Coaching, fear is one of the smallest areas of change required in order to move a Coachee's goals forward. Once mastered with action plans and strategies to manage the challenges they may face as well as defining the true perception of said fear, Coachees can almost move forward from the very first session, taking small steps towards their full potential.
Sonshi: Which quote from Sun Tzu can you relate to the most based on your own life's philosophy?
McClymont: This question is unfair. There are too many to choose from that apply and have helped a variety of situations in my life :-) But, this is probably the most relatable: “Armed with the sense of righteousness and the blessings from Heaven, your army becomes fearless. Thus they are willing to live and die for the purpose of realising victory.”
Of course like all Sun Tzu’s words, each interpretation will be different and also how it is applied but I have always interpreted this quote with regards to myself and my ‘army’ is the army of my mind (conscious, subconscious, unconscious, ego and all the other voices.) Knowing the value, the reason, the belief for doing what I am doing keeps me going and ultimately, ensures I succeed. A very relevant example of how this has been applied recently in my business was when I decided to take the plunge to give my working life to Coaching.
I wasn’t thinking about the money I would make, I was thinking about the people I could help and everything in relation to my Coaching journey was easy. When I needed something, it appeared, when I needed funds for a course, the money was available. However, when I was in a position where I wanted to be a Coach full time, I started to focus on the money. And not in an arrogant way, I had to start thinking about money because I would be charging people and then I went into a spin of my own design. No work came to me. Once I realised what was happening, I swiftly changed my thinking, focused on helping, and trusted the right people would pay the right price for the value of my Coaching. And they do.
Sonshi: What is the number one problem you see in business? What are your suggestions on how to solve it?
McClymont: Following on from my favourite quote - when businesses focus solely on the bottom line/revenues/profits. Of course, a business is there to make money but if you’re providing the right service or product, the customer will purchase. If your customer service is impeccable, people will trust you and if you treat your workforce with real value, they will be loyal and the business will succeed (this is in simple terms). But all too often, especially when there is a downturn, businesses focus solely on making money rather than finding the real solutions to the slowing down. More often than not (unless the product or service is time-sensitive such as an Easter egg) the slowing down of trade can be attributed to an unhappy, unfulfilled, undervalued workforce.
For example (and this is what I’ve experienced throughout my career) - When you hear the owner/CEO/MD/Director of a company or indeed the delegated Managers speak endlessly about trading low, slow, we need to do more, we need more customers, we need more sales; and they say to employees phrases such as ‘you need to work harder’, ‘what are you doing to increase sales?’ ‘you need to stay late’ etc etc - the employee hears…”I need to work harder and later so that I can make you more money, to enjoy your holidays Bora Bora, your Savile Row suits, your daily Michelin star dinners and your multi-million £ home but yet, I receive ‘job fulfillment’ for all my efforts.
Today, this is not enough. In the 70’s and 80’s - the baby boomer times, people worked for companies for over 10/20 years at a time, those were the jobs where you had regular annual pay rises, you were able to build futures with family, you were able to live. In the last 20 or so years, attitudes have become very aggressive in work towards employees and many companies appear to have adopted a ‘more for-less’ attitude to their teams. This really upsets me. I have fallen victim to this hence why I focus the majority of my attention in helping businesses change this mindset. Yes, we could argue that the crash of 2008 is to blame but let’s not forget depressions before then, we still managed to value our people. Why have we stopped? It could be due to technological advancements, it could be due to lack of effort from certain generations but I think, it’s arrogance. It’s ego. It’s an unbalanced mind that ‘leads’ companies like these. The more successful ones, are not only doing well financially, their staff will also tell you how great their jobs are. I could easily write an essay on this question, so I’ll leave it here, with my very opinionated opinion.
Sonshi: What is the number one opportunity you see businesses not taking advantage of?
McClymont: Their talent. So many businesses seem to think employee engagement, support, care etc is just another item on the HR checklist. Feeding on from my thoughts above, business owners really need to understand the value of each employee because quite simply, the business would not exist without them and they should be valued in some way. Value is not always about the money either. Workforces of today are more open to a lifestyle value proposition.
Often times many companies even completely forgo the annual pay review simply blaming the projections. But what if you could place real value on your teams, provide them with the support they need in their lives to achieve their personal goals (usually the common ones: buy a house, leave work on time) instead? What would that look like? “If you do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get the same result” - the common perception is that change is difficult but instead of focusing on the change itself, we should focus more on the outcomes. So long as our endeavours are working towards a particular outcome, success is almost certainly guaranteed. And if something or someone doesn’t work out, that’s ok. It’s also imperative to review who works well and who doesn’t, why they don’t and whether this path is for them or not. Employers need to focus more attention on developing their employees, listening to their needs and helping them succeed in building their futures in order to get a positive (usually financial) result for themselves and the company.
Sonshi: What is the best piece of advice you can give to young people starting out in today's world?
McClymont: Be resilient. Be fierce in your endeavours and stay focused on your goals. Know your worth, work hard whether that’s educating yourself, gaining the relevant experience or being able to stand up for yourself. Don’t expect things to be handed to you. Ensure your morals are in check (i.e. don’t expect to become a VP of a Fortune 500 company within a year). Be realistic about what you are capable of and humble to the things that you don’t know yet. Experience and time are all essential to building a human being let alone a career, so don’t be so quick to expect things overnight. Work well and your value will shine through. Have self-awareness and accountability for your actions. And most importantly, prepare to fail, fail well and never give up.
Sonshi: Tell us more about Frankly Coaching and how it has helped others in the past. What can someone expect when interested in your company's assistance?
McClymont: The work I do with individuals varies greatly. I work with a range of people; those looking to enhance or change career, enhance wellbeing through to helping people manage their various relationships with others and finding partners as well as new business endeavours. My goal to help individuals is for them to lead happier lives, ones they can be proud of and learn how to enjoy even when tough times hit.
I work with businesses to help them develop their employee engagement. This ranges from implementing programmes into organisations, topping up the good they already do through to developing future leaders and training managers in Coaching skills so they may lead more effectively. My goal here is similar to the above whereby the workforce is engaged, motivated, feel valued and their work complements this leading to a happier workforce and hopefully a positive contribution to the bottom line.
[End of interview]
McClymont: The two biggest challenges I have faced in my life have been depression and my son being born 2 months early.
I had a breakdown in 2012 which was diagnosed as depression. I phoned a friend’s mum to ask her what was happening to me as after the 4th time that day I couldn’t stop crying and was just a pile of sadness on the floor. I needed to speak to someone caring, maternal and nurturing and she has always been there for me in this way. Once I had described what was going on, she told me I was having a nervous breakdown and that I needed to seek help immediately. I didn’t really understand depression at the time and after googling found that I had been exhibiting all the symptoms for almost a year.
After seeing my doctor who wanted to prescribe pills which I didn’t feel comfortable taking, my friend’s mum suggested I come and stay with her for a few months in her rural home in Mexico; in order to get away from my life and try to reset. I wasn’t sure that this would ‘heal’ me and it didn’t completely but it certainly was the best thing for me to have done. By being away from my day to day, I was able to silence myself, spend time on my self-care, listen to my intuition and really hone into the roots of my sadness. When I returned, I was ready to continue my journey to healing which included a change of scenery in work, counseling and doing more things that I enjoyed doing.
It was also the beginning of the rest of my life. I had indeed reset and started to live for me rather than the version of myself I thought I should be living. I started to understand self-awareness and reviewed my life thus far in all its parts in order to be better internally and as a person.
In 2015 I had a difficult pregnancy with my son. We found out we were pregnant and like most people we weren’t ready but at the age of 35, I’m of the mindset that you go with it. And we did. We did all we could to be ‘ready’ for this change in our lives and were looking forward to all of it. However, after my 12 week scan, we were told that the baby was small. This didn’t mean anything to us, all his organs were forming, he had all his fingers and toes and the doctors didn't really explain what this meant. I continued to work and manage my pregnancy. By 20 weeks, it was getting more serious and they said that it was likely that he’d be born early. Again, this didn’t concern me, I thought, they’d deliver when he was fully cooked, and he’d be in good hands, surely this is all.
Well, not really. He was due on Valentine’s day and had to be delivered at 30 weeks (7 months) so was born mid December. Now this was scary. My stress levels were through the roof and we tried to do all we could to keep me as calm as possible but anything coming between a mother and her child just has no chance. I was fiercely pragmatic. I had to be. I trusted in my care, I trusted in the support from my husband and family and I had to trust spiritually. I trusted that my son would be just as strong and resilient like his parents and that all would be well. I had to. If I had entertained even an ounce of negative thinking, I would have fallen so deep into depression that my son may not have had a chance. I believe that babies feel your emotions too so it was imperative that I stayed above my sadness and fears to ensure his best chances. I had to fight. I fought with myself, with God, with everything. I had to trust in something I had no idea about and I had to believe that all would be well. And it was. We were very fortunate. He was born screaming. He was the smallest baby in the NICU unit and the loudest. He went from strength to strength each day and after two months, finally came home to us. On the day of his birth, I was a complete mess, in tears, scared and anxious right up until the point at which he was born and I heard those lungs!
After that, I was in fierce mama mode and just wanted to see him. After recovery, I was persistent and was finally able to see him. The shock of the first meeting is indescribable. I wasn’t allowed to hold him when he was born so between his birth and me meeting him, it was 8 hours. The next morning, I woke early and was eagerly trying to leave the maternity ward to go to him. When I was finally allowed, I put on my make up, wore fresh clothes and ensured I looked good. This sounds fickle but after experiencing depression, one of the most notable things I had learned was about self-care. By just making myself look even slightly presentable, I felt like I could do anything. I felt confident, strong and resilient. I wanted my son to feel this too. I didn’t want him to feel any of the sadness and fear. And it really helped. I felt ‘together’ for the two months of daily hospital visits that followed. I felt strong and capable and trusted that all would be well. “Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak.”
Sonshi: What stops many people from performing closer to their potential?
McClymont: The most common issue that holds people back from fulfilling their potential is FEAR. Fear manifests in various guises from not having enough money, fear of failing, not having enough confidence and the usual bouts of stress and anxiety of change. As a Life Coach, I regularly see fear as the prime reason people get stuck and why they have difficulty moving forward with their plans/goals/dreams. We of course have very real issues, the fears that I’ve described are not to be dismissed however. In Coaching, fear is one of the smallest areas of change required in order to move a Coachee's goals forward. Once mastered with action plans and strategies to manage the challenges they may face as well as defining the true perception of said fear, Coachees can almost move forward from the very first session, taking small steps towards their full potential.
Sonshi: Which quote from Sun Tzu can you relate to the most based on your own life's philosophy?
McClymont: This question is unfair. There are too many to choose from that apply and have helped a variety of situations in my life :-) But, this is probably the most relatable: “Armed with the sense of righteousness and the blessings from Heaven, your army becomes fearless. Thus they are willing to live and die for the purpose of realising victory.”
Of course like all Sun Tzu’s words, each interpretation will be different and also how it is applied but I have always interpreted this quote with regards to myself and my ‘army’ is the army of my mind (conscious, subconscious, unconscious, ego and all the other voices.) Knowing the value, the reason, the belief for doing what I am doing keeps me going and ultimately, ensures I succeed. A very relevant example of how this has been applied recently in my business was when I decided to take the plunge to give my working life to Coaching.
I wasn’t thinking about the money I would make, I was thinking about the people I could help and everything in relation to my Coaching journey was easy. When I needed something, it appeared, when I needed funds for a course, the money was available. However, when I was in a position where I wanted to be a Coach full time, I started to focus on the money. And not in an arrogant way, I had to start thinking about money because I would be charging people and then I went into a spin of my own design. No work came to me. Once I realised what was happening, I swiftly changed my thinking, focused on helping, and trusted the right people would pay the right price for the value of my Coaching. And they do.
Sonshi: What is the number one problem you see in business? What are your suggestions on how to solve it?
McClymont: Following on from my favourite quote - when businesses focus solely on the bottom line/revenues/profits. Of course, a business is there to make money but if you’re providing the right service or product, the customer will purchase. If your customer service is impeccable, people will trust you and if you treat your workforce with real value, they will be loyal and the business will succeed (this is in simple terms). But all too often, especially when there is a downturn, businesses focus solely on making money rather than finding the real solutions to the slowing down. More often than not (unless the product or service is time-sensitive such as an Easter egg) the slowing down of trade can be attributed to an unhappy, unfulfilled, undervalued workforce.
For example (and this is what I’ve experienced throughout my career) - When you hear the owner/CEO/MD/Director of a company or indeed the delegated Managers speak endlessly about trading low, slow, we need to do more, we need more customers, we need more sales; and they say to employees phrases such as ‘you need to work harder’, ‘what are you doing to increase sales?’ ‘you need to stay late’ etc etc - the employee hears…”I need to work harder and later so that I can make you more money, to enjoy your holidays Bora Bora, your Savile Row suits, your daily Michelin star dinners and your multi-million £ home but yet, I receive ‘job fulfillment’ for all my efforts.
Today, this is not enough. In the 70’s and 80’s - the baby boomer times, people worked for companies for over 10/20 years at a time, those were the jobs where you had regular annual pay rises, you were able to build futures with family, you were able to live. In the last 20 or so years, attitudes have become very aggressive in work towards employees and many companies appear to have adopted a ‘more for-less’ attitude to their teams. This really upsets me. I have fallen victim to this hence why I focus the majority of my attention in helping businesses change this mindset. Yes, we could argue that the crash of 2008 is to blame but let’s not forget depressions before then, we still managed to value our people. Why have we stopped? It could be due to technological advancements, it could be due to lack of effort from certain generations but I think, it’s arrogance. It’s ego. It’s an unbalanced mind that ‘leads’ companies like these. The more successful ones, are not only doing well financially, their staff will also tell you how great their jobs are. I could easily write an essay on this question, so I’ll leave it here, with my very opinionated opinion.
Sonshi: What is the number one opportunity you see businesses not taking advantage of?
McClymont: Their talent. So many businesses seem to think employee engagement, support, care etc is just another item on the HR checklist. Feeding on from my thoughts above, business owners really need to understand the value of each employee because quite simply, the business would not exist without them and they should be valued in some way. Value is not always about the money either. Workforces of today are more open to a lifestyle value proposition.
Often times many companies even completely forgo the annual pay review simply blaming the projections. But what if you could place real value on your teams, provide them with the support they need in their lives to achieve their personal goals (usually the common ones: buy a house, leave work on time) instead? What would that look like? “If you do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get the same result” - the common perception is that change is difficult but instead of focusing on the change itself, we should focus more on the outcomes. So long as our endeavours are working towards a particular outcome, success is almost certainly guaranteed. And if something or someone doesn’t work out, that’s ok. It’s also imperative to review who works well and who doesn’t, why they don’t and whether this path is for them or not. Employers need to focus more attention on developing their employees, listening to their needs and helping them succeed in building their futures in order to get a positive (usually financial) result for themselves and the company.
Sonshi: What is the best piece of advice you can give to young people starting out in today's world?
McClymont: Be resilient. Be fierce in your endeavours and stay focused on your goals. Know your worth, work hard whether that’s educating yourself, gaining the relevant experience or being able to stand up for yourself. Don’t expect things to be handed to you. Ensure your morals are in check (i.e. don’t expect to become a VP of a Fortune 500 company within a year). Be realistic about what you are capable of and humble to the things that you don’t know yet. Experience and time are all essential to building a human being let alone a career, so don’t be so quick to expect things overnight. Work well and your value will shine through. Have self-awareness and accountability for your actions. And most importantly, prepare to fail, fail well and never give up.
Sonshi: Tell us more about Frankly Coaching and how it has helped others in the past. What can someone expect when interested in your company's assistance?
McClymont: The work I do with individuals varies greatly. I work with a range of people; those looking to enhance or change career, enhance wellbeing through to helping people manage their various relationships with others and finding partners as well as new business endeavours. My goal to help individuals is for them to lead happier lives, ones they can be proud of and learn how to enjoy even when tough times hit.
I work with businesses to help them develop their employee engagement. This ranges from implementing programmes into organisations, topping up the good they already do through to developing future leaders and training managers in Coaching skills so they may lead more effectively. My goal here is similar to the above whereby the workforce is engaged, motivated, feel valued and their work complements this leading to a happier workforce and hopefully a positive contribution to the bottom line.
[End of interview]